WEBVTT

00:20.299 --> 00:22.466
Yeah , while we're waiting , the , the

00:22.466 --> 00:24.410
idea is over the next couple weeks

00:24.410 --> 00:26.299
we're doing some outbris slash in

00:26.299 --> 00:28.969
briefs . um , Cameron Goodbars here are

00:28.969 --> 00:30.969
gonna talk about some of his , uh ,

00:31.170 --> 00:33.337
interesting ideas he's bringing to the

00:33.337 --> 00:35.559
group , um , after we talk through some

00:35.559 --> 00:37.559
of the outbriefs , some of the cool

00:37.559 --> 00:39.670
summer work or summer colleagues have

00:39.670 --> 00:42.819
been doing . And this might go over the

00:42.819 --> 00:44.763
next couple weeks , but after that

00:44.763 --> 00:46.541
we're gonna pick back up on the

00:46.541 --> 00:48.652
neurosymbolic stuff . I think walking

00:48.652 --> 00:50.708
through maybe some of the history of

00:50.708 --> 00:52.819
the good old fashioned AI and some of

00:52.819 --> 00:54.875
the parallel distributive processing

00:54.875 --> 00:57.097
stuff that George was talking about and

00:57.097 --> 00:59.208
then get into I guess the blending of

00:59.208 --> 01:01.263
the two , that is neurosymbolic AI .

01:02.189 --> 01:04.559
The audience is primed . Um .

01:07.209 --> 01:09.098
I I didn't have any introductions

01:09.098 --> 01:11.209
planned . Usually that's a compliment

01:11.209 --> 01:13.042
cause that means you guys are uh

01:13.042 --> 01:14.931
insiders now , so no introduction

01:14.931 --> 01:17.042
needed , but perhaps , um , I think I

01:17.042 --> 01:19.153
was tracking Natalie's gonna go first

01:19.153 --> 01:21.480
and then will , maybe you , you want to

01:21.480 --> 01:23.702
say a little bit if you're doing sounds

01:23.702 --> 01:25.819
like a lot of the work close to your

01:26.480 --> 01:30.209
your area here . No , I don't wanna

01:30.209 --> 01:34.129
say anything . No , that's

01:34.129 --> 01:36.370
been with us first . Now this is 4th

01:36.370 --> 01:39.489
year , and , um , so we've gone all

01:39.489 --> 01:41.656
over the map over the previous years ,

01:41.656 --> 01:43.822
but this year I had specific area that

01:43.822 --> 01:46.045
I . I was noodling around , which is in

01:46.045 --> 01:48.211
this interface between Quest and , and

01:48.211 --> 01:50.830
some of our application work . So , uh ,

01:50.839 --> 01:53.040
I , Natalie's uniquely qualified to

01:53.040 --> 01:55.151
address this , so I threw her on that

01:55.151 --> 01:57.262
stake and let her squirm all summer .

01:57.269 --> 01:59.158
So she's gonna explain to you the

01:59.158 --> 02:02.879
meaning of life . No .

02:04.690 --> 02:06.912
Um , so for those of you who don't know

02:06.912 --> 02:09.100
me , my name is Natalie . Um , this is

02:09.100 --> 02:12.940
my 4th summer with A3 , um , like Cat

02:12.940 --> 02:15.649
said , I've kind of been doing whatever ,

02:15.820 --> 02:18.779
uh , Cap's been my mentor for the whole

02:18.779 --> 02:21.300
time , so I basically just do whatever

02:21.300 --> 02:23.522
he tells me to do , and I think it's so

02:23.522 --> 02:27.000
cool , um , but this summer . I came in

02:27.000 --> 02:29.960
wanting to look at pain . Um , I'm

02:29.960 --> 02:32.127
applying for a physical therapy school

02:32.127 --> 02:34.182
right now to be a doctor , doctor of

02:34.182 --> 02:36.182
physical therapy . So understanding

02:36.182 --> 02:38.399
pain was pretty important to me so I

02:38.399 --> 02:40.288
can understand my patients in the

02:40.288 --> 02:42.455
future . And then kind of put me along

02:42.455 --> 02:45.509
this interface system with CCAs and

02:46.039 --> 02:48.509
uh working pain into that . So you guys

02:48.509 --> 02:51.229
can see my slides , sorry . Yeah , OK ,

02:51.389 --> 02:53.500
I just wanna make sure before I start

02:53.500 --> 02:55.611
clicking through . Yes , ma'am . OK ,

02:55.611 --> 02:58.429
perfect . So , collaborative combat

02:58.429 --> 03:00.949
aircrafts or CCAs are agents that have

03:00.949 --> 03:03.199
been developed to work with crude or

03:03.199 --> 03:06.149
uncrewed agents during missions . Um ,

03:06.580 --> 03:08.636
while on a mission , it's not , it's

03:08.636 --> 03:10.636
important for not only the teams to

03:10.636 --> 03:12.413
succeed in reaching a target or

03:12.413 --> 03:14.449
completing a mission , but for each

03:14.449 --> 03:16.671
agent or aircraft to complete their own

03:16.671 --> 03:18.820
tasking as well . As an athlete , I

03:18.820 --> 03:20.764
equated this to a sports team like

03:20.764 --> 03:22.860
soccer . Each player has a role that

03:22.860 --> 03:25.027
they have been assigned to perform for

03:25.027 --> 03:27.027
the duration of the match or game .

03:27.027 --> 03:29.138
Similar to a team on a mission , each

03:29.138 --> 03:31.138
CCA or crude aircraft has their own

03:31.138 --> 03:33.360
tasking and capabilities that they need

03:33.360 --> 03:35.850
to complete during a mission . If an

03:35.850 --> 03:38.399
athlete or CCA is unable to perform or

03:38.399 --> 03:40.510
complete their task , the mission can

03:40.510 --> 03:42.732
be compromised . This would most likely

03:42.732 --> 03:44.566
be due to an injury or pain in a

03:44.566 --> 03:46.288
teammate or a broken system or

03:46.288 --> 03:48.520
mechanical failure in a CCA . In this

03:48.520 --> 03:50.631
scenario , other athletes or aircraft

03:50.631 --> 03:52.687
can attempt to compensate for undone

03:52.687 --> 03:55.020
tasks by the injured or broken teammate .

03:55.119 --> 03:58.029
In overcompensation by another agent in

03:58.029 --> 04:00.509
sport or in the air in battle , can

04:00.509 --> 04:02.565
lead to a lessened chance of mission

04:02.565 --> 04:05.070
accomplishment and success . CCAs might

04:05.070 --> 04:07.014
not even be able to compensate for

04:07.014 --> 04:09.126
other agents , because communications

04:09.126 --> 04:11.348
can be lost or delayed during an active

04:11.348 --> 04:13.514
mission . We just don't know what will

04:13.514 --> 04:16.309
happen . In terms of history ,

04:16.760 --> 04:19.648
switching to human pain now . The gait

04:19.648 --> 04:21.648
control theory was the first theory

04:21.648 --> 04:23.870
that included central processing in the

04:23.870 --> 04:26.368
brain as included in their

04:26.368 --> 04:28.579
understanding of pain . This theory

04:28.579 --> 04:30.746
proposes that as signals are sent from

04:30.746 --> 04:33.079
sensory receptors in the skin , muscles ,

04:33.339 --> 04:35.619
ligaments , tendons , um , they're

04:35.619 --> 04:38.059
modulated by a gating mechanism in the

04:38.059 --> 04:40.709
spinal dorsal dorsal horn , which I

04:40.709 --> 04:43.269
drew a red circle around . Um , it's

04:43.269 --> 04:45.436
also on the other side as well , but I

04:45.436 --> 04:47.602
just noted out that one , so you could

04:47.602 --> 04:49.880
see what the structure looks like . Um ,

04:50.019 --> 04:52.920
large diameter fibers , which are noted

04:52.920 --> 04:56.239
as a beta fibers , inhibit the gait and

04:56.239 --> 04:58.461
prevent those signals from transmitting

04:58.461 --> 05:00.406
up into the brain . Small diameter

05:00.406 --> 05:02.628
fibers , which are labeled as ADelta or

05:02.628 --> 05:05.000
C fibers , facilitate the gait and

05:05.000 --> 05:07.111
allow those signals to be transmitted

05:07.111 --> 05:10.390
up to the brain . One common time that

05:10.390 --> 05:12.390
individuals can feel pain or muscle

05:12.390 --> 05:15.670
stress is during exercise . Muscle

05:15.670 --> 05:17.948
hypertrophy occurs when a muscle grows ,

05:18.070 --> 05:20.237
either as an organ or as the result of

05:20.237 --> 05:22.459
an increase in the cross-sectional area

05:22.459 --> 05:24.910
of a muscle fiber , which is the

05:24.910 --> 05:28.660
smallest little , almost string like uh

05:29.190 --> 05:32.410
thing you can see on the right , or you

05:32.410 --> 05:34.521
can increase the number of myofibrils

05:34.521 --> 05:36.649
within a muscle fiber . In the bottom

05:36.649 --> 05:38.816
left corner , you can see an animation

05:38.816 --> 05:41.149
of filaments sliding across one another ,

05:41.149 --> 05:42.982
hence why this concept of muscle

05:42.982 --> 05:45.205
movement is called the sliding filament

05:45.205 --> 05:46.982
theory . Actin and myocin , the

05:46.982 --> 05:48.871
smallest units of movement within

05:48.871 --> 05:50.816
skeletal muscle , glide along each

05:50.816 --> 05:53.260
other as the muscle contracts . M and

05:53.260 --> 05:55.427
heads grab onto the strains of actin ,

05:55.500 --> 05:57.611
pull the fiber , which then contracts

05:57.611 --> 05:59.056
the entire muscle fiber .

05:59.220 --> 06:01.220
Simultaneously , every other muscle

06:01.220 --> 06:03.820
fiber is contracting within the muscle

06:03.820 --> 06:06.470
organ . This all or nothing response

06:06.470 --> 06:08.470
creates a muscle contraction . When

06:08.470 --> 06:10.692
adding resistance to this contraction ,

06:10.692 --> 06:13.410
hypertrophy can occur . This process

06:13.410 --> 06:15.730
actually happens due to microscopic

06:15.730 --> 06:17.563
tears in the muscle during these

06:17.563 --> 06:19.820
contractions with resistance . When

06:19.820 --> 06:21.431
these muscular tears occur ,

06:21.431 --> 06:23.542
inflammatory responses in the blood ,

06:23.542 --> 06:25.653
like oxygen and nutrients are sent to

06:25.653 --> 06:27.931
the injury site to help heal the organ .

06:28.529 --> 06:30.807
When done correctly and not overloaded ,

06:30.850 --> 06:32.572
muscles will grow due to these

06:32.572 --> 06:34.809
responses . When done incorrectly ,

06:34.890 --> 06:37.410
that's when you go through uh pains

06:37.410 --> 06:40.410
like muscle tears , muscle strains ,

06:40.529 --> 06:44.239
those not fun things . It's interesting

06:44.239 --> 06:46.461
that rather than becoming weaker due to

06:46.461 --> 06:48.239
injuries and tears , the muscle

06:48.239 --> 06:50.350
actually becomes stronger . This is a

06:50.350 --> 06:53.260
great example of anti-fragility . The

06:53.260 --> 06:55.482
concept of anti-fragility is based upon

06:55.482 --> 06:57.538
the idea that when a system or agent

06:57.538 --> 06:59.371
undergoes a series of unexpected

06:59.371 --> 07:01.619
stressors , um , it doesn't break the

07:01.619 --> 07:03.675
system , it just makes it stronger .

07:03.859 --> 07:05.803
Rather than being resilient , with

07:05.803 --> 07:08.019
which would just be able to withstand

07:08.019 --> 07:10.075
the stressors and not get stronger .

07:10.410 --> 07:12.521
Agents can gain knowledge and improve

07:12.521 --> 07:14.743
under these stressful conditions . It's

07:14.743 --> 07:16.854
important for CCAs to be anti-fragile

07:16.854 --> 07:18.966
as we cannot predict what will happen

07:18.966 --> 07:21.929
during a mission or combat . We can

07:22.140 --> 07:24.251
make guesses , but even these guesses

07:24.251 --> 07:26.362
rarely turn out the way that we think

07:26.362 --> 07:28.362
they will . Like skeletal muscles ,

07:28.420 --> 07:30.531
placing this added stress upon agents

07:30.531 --> 07:32.364
will make them stronger and more

07:32.364 --> 07:34.087
capable in future situations .

07:37.230 --> 07:39.397
Rather than to remember the experience

07:39.397 --> 07:41.508
pain , the quality of pain is used in

07:41.508 --> 07:43.341
humans to create knowledge about

07:43.341 --> 07:45.341
experiences and events and to store

07:45.341 --> 07:47.508
this knowledge for future situations .

07:47.508 --> 07:49.508
This can be applied to CCAs to make

07:49.508 --> 07:52.130
them anti-fragile . In this context ,

07:52.170 --> 07:54.690
CCAs can use prior experiences and

07:54.690 --> 07:56.801
stored knowledge about experiences or

07:56.801 --> 07:58.801
simulations for future situations .

07:59.760 --> 08:01.649
Like how we as humans use painful

08:01.649 --> 08:03.593
experiences as cautions for future

08:03.593 --> 08:06.359
situations . We avoid things or pay

08:06.359 --> 08:08.470
great attention to certain objects or

08:08.470 --> 08:10.692
people using the knowledge we gained in

08:10.692 --> 08:12.803
the past . This is kind of similar to

08:12.803 --> 08:14.970
how , like , if you get stung as a bee

08:14.970 --> 08:17.026
as a kid or I don't know , maybe you

08:17.026 --> 08:18.970
fall off a bike , you're scared of

08:18.970 --> 08:20.915
bikes and scared of bees . Um , by

08:20.915 --> 08:23.081
making CCAs anti-fragile , we can also

08:23.081 --> 08:25.081
make our systems more efficient and

08:25.081 --> 08:27.200
more effective . Um , the sum of all

08:27.200 --> 08:29.739
these capabilities in their CCAs is

08:29.739 --> 08:33.119
greater than the whole . So , a little

08:33.119 --> 08:36.070
diagram to kind of represent this . So

08:36.400 --> 08:38.909
let's treat these boxes in the diagram

08:38.909 --> 08:41.239
as AI systems . The circles are the

08:41.239 --> 08:43.517
targets that they're working to defeat .

08:43.520 --> 08:45.489
Each AI system has its own set of

08:45.489 --> 08:47.919
sensory , decision making , action

08:47.919 --> 08:50.080
taking , and possibly collaborative

08:50.080 --> 08:52.479
capabilities . Each of the orange boxes

08:52.479 --> 08:54.368
have been developed to defeat the

08:54.368 --> 08:58.140
circles . Then , Another target

08:58.140 --> 09:00.251
is developed with different goals and

09:00.251 --> 09:02.418
mechanisms , which is the red circle .

09:02.570 --> 09:04.681
Using what the orange AI systems have

09:04.681 --> 09:06.681
learned from previous experiences ,

09:06.681 --> 09:08.792
their capabilities can be combined to

09:08.792 --> 09:10.903
defeat the to defeat the new target ,

09:11.179 --> 09:13.512
making an entirely new system in itself ,

09:13.512 --> 09:15.849
which would be the red box . This cycle

09:15.849 --> 09:19.820
can continue , even using The new

09:19.820 --> 09:22.859
AI system and an old AI system to

09:22.859 --> 09:24.979
defeat new targets with different

09:24.979 --> 09:27.280
capabilities . Uh

09:29.510 --> 09:32.750
So I guess what I need a quest with is

09:32.750 --> 09:35.030
what ideas can be brought from the S3Q

09:35.030 --> 09:37.900
model to help make DCCA's anti-gradual

09:38.190 --> 09:40.869
and cat kind of brought this

09:41.429 --> 09:45.000
new I guess what to call it ,

09:45.400 --> 09:47.849
like part of the SDQ model , like . We

09:47.849 --> 09:50.016
we talked about for the longest time ,

09:50.016 --> 09:51.960
and we sort of dismissed , but I'm

09:51.960 --> 09:54.640
always willing to readdress that maybe

09:54.640 --> 09:57.960
SCQ should be S4Q and the fourth S was

09:57.960 --> 10:00.309
stress . And it was for exactly what ,

10:00.440 --> 10:02.607
what chronic , by the way , that's her

10:02.607 --> 10:04.829
real name , chronic , uh , what Chronic

10:04.829 --> 10:06.884
was trying to teach us and that is ,

10:06.884 --> 10:08.996
there's a , there's a role for stress

10:08.996 --> 10:11.030
in a , in a conscious and a and a

10:11.030 --> 10:14.289
quality-based representation . And the

10:14.289 --> 10:18.049
idea there is that stress is used to uh

10:18.049 --> 10:20.271
capture knowledge in a , in a form that

10:20.271 --> 10:22.409
it could be reused later . So in our

10:22.409 --> 10:25.210
little uh animation there , the idea is

10:25.210 --> 10:27.849
that you combine You know , sensory

10:27.849 --> 10:29.960
capabilities , decision , uh ,

10:29.969 --> 10:32.309
mechanisms , uh , action mechanisms ,

10:32.330 --> 10:34.386
and collaborative mechanisms in ways

10:34.386 --> 10:36.108
you didn't envision to solve a

10:36.108 --> 10:38.274
contingency that you didn't plan for .

10:38.274 --> 10:40.441
And that gives you a new vocabulary in

10:40.441 --> 10:42.663
her case , that blue box , that's a new

10:42.663 --> 10:44.774
piece of the vocabulary which you can

10:44.774 --> 10:46.886
use with the next threat you get that

10:46.886 --> 10:48.997
you were not designed to address next

10:48.997 --> 10:51.070
contingency . And the , the . From a

10:51.070 --> 10:53.320
request perspective , I , I'm pushing

10:53.320 --> 10:56.109
this idea that that's what an S3Q

10:56.109 --> 10:58.109
representation gives you . It's not

10:58.109 --> 11:00.276
focused on capturing the environment .

11:00.276 --> 11:02.387
It's not even focused on , you know ,

11:02.387 --> 11:04.553
uh , memorizing what happened to you .

11:04.553 --> 11:06.331
It's putting everything in this

11:06.331 --> 11:08.553
knowledge representation centric , uh ,

11:08.553 --> 11:10.780
view , uh , for exactly this purpose ,

11:11.030 --> 11:13.659
contingency anti-fragility over

11:22.799 --> 11:26.690
Ted Yeah , I'm , I'm ,

11:26.780 --> 11:28.724
I'm , I'm , I'm , I just love that

11:28.724 --> 11:30.891
muscle , uh , the muscle description .

11:30.891 --> 11:34.020
Thank you . Um , but I really , as you

11:34.020 --> 11:36.242
saw in my little comment , I think that

11:36.242 --> 11:38.710
the , the one the example where we have ,

11:38.780 --> 11:40.669
you know , we have , we have that

11:40.669 --> 11:42.724
muscle and we know exactly what that

11:42.724 --> 11:45.059
antifragility is , is a very different

11:45.059 --> 11:47.359
thing , uh , and it's the important

11:47.359 --> 11:49.739
distinction is how do we , how do we

11:49.739 --> 11:52.969
decide . To pull on that muscle , when

11:53.140 --> 11:55.362
there are a lot of muscles I could pull

11:55.362 --> 11:57.473
on , I use my quads , but I should be

11:57.473 --> 11:59.529
using my butt muscles , because if I

11:59.529 --> 12:01.696
use my quads too much , I'm gonna push

12:01.696 --> 12:03.918
on my hamstrings really hard . And so ,

12:03.918 --> 12:05.862
uh , the anti-fragility requires a

12:05.862 --> 12:08.400
decision about focus , to learn how to

12:08.400 --> 12:10.456
use my , my , my butt muscles . I've

12:10.456 --> 12:12.622
had that problem , by the way . I've ,

12:12.622 --> 12:14.733
I've overdone my , my quads and my PT

12:14.733 --> 12:17.280
is off for doing that . And we do that

12:17.280 --> 12:19.502
with , with everything we do , which is

12:19.502 --> 12:21.669
we have to figure out how to take a 1D

12:21.669 --> 12:23.724
mistake , where we've done fragility

12:23.840 --> 12:26.200
and turn it into anti-fragility by

12:26.200 --> 12:28.256
deciding what what other contexts to

12:28.256 --> 12:30.440
take into play . To get that those

12:30.440 --> 12:32.384
other boxes you're talking about ,

12:32.384 --> 12:34.440
maybe , I don't know that's enough .

12:34.520 --> 12:36.859
Yeah , so you , you hit on the , on the

12:36.859 --> 12:39.619
key challenge we will face as we go

12:39.619 --> 12:41.675
down this path , and that is you can

12:41.675 --> 12:43.841
come up with , there's lots of ways to

12:43.841 --> 12:46.008
come up with novel vocabulary elements

12:46.008 --> 12:48.230
which now could be used in the future .

12:48.230 --> 12:50.286
The question is , how do you get the

12:50.286 --> 12:52.063
right ones ? How do you compose

12:52.063 --> 12:54.119
together to give you a , a , a , not

12:54.119 --> 12:56.175
only a novel , but a interesting new

12:56.175 --> 12:58.175
piece of the vocabulary . Solve the

12:58.175 --> 13:00.286
next contingency . And so our current

13:00.286 --> 13:02.452
approach , our current ideas there are

13:02.452 --> 13:04.675
that you , you , you put these into the

13:04.675 --> 13:07.008
vocabulary mix and then as they're used ,

13:07.008 --> 13:09.119
they get reinforced . And so it's the

13:09.119 --> 13:11.230
idea of , of uh chunking , and then ,

13:11.230 --> 13:13.397
then you , you have these new elements

13:13.397 --> 13:15.563
that you've chunked . If you don't use

13:15.563 --> 13:15.005
them , they just sort of go away

13:15.005 --> 13:17.061
because of lack of use , they're not

13:17.061 --> 13:19.369
brought to your mind to use , so . So

13:19.369 --> 13:21.369
that is the key technical challenge

13:21.369 --> 13:23.536
what you're saying here . It's easy to

13:23.536 --> 13:25.369
combine things , it just becomes

13:25.369 --> 13:27.369
combinatoric impossible to do . But

13:27.369 --> 13:29.369
luckily , the next speaker is gonna

13:29.369 --> 13:31.536
solve all that and , and his co-design

13:31.536 --> 13:33.702
talk , but we'll get back to that in a

13:33.702 --> 13:35.925
second . Yeah , so just , just one more

13:35.925 --> 13:38.036
little thought is that basically what

13:38.036 --> 13:40.147
happens is my pain , the pain becomes

13:40.147 --> 13:42.313
too great in that muscle , and I , and

13:42.313 --> 13:44.480
I think of using another muscle . Uh ,

13:44.480 --> 13:46.591
I think of using my arm to to pull me

13:46.591 --> 13:48.702
up after my legs can't push anymore .

13:48.880 --> 13:52.309
So that , that , that choice of going

13:52.309 --> 13:55.119
to an alternative solution , uh , that

13:55.119 --> 13:56.897
moment of choice is , is really

13:56.897 --> 13:57.897
critical .

14:02.280 --> 14:04.447
And it might be the the reason that we

14:04.447 --> 14:06.391
have the pain in the first place .

14:08.380 --> 14:10.324
Other questions for Natalie here ?

14:16.070 --> 14:18.181
Natalie , can you quickly , could you

14:18.181 --> 14:20.530
go back to the um box and circle slide ?

14:21.070 --> 14:23.289
Yeah , please . Yeah .

14:32.049 --> 14:34.599
I'm trying to map . I'm trying to map

14:34.599 --> 14:37.630
it here . The idea here is , is that

14:38.039 --> 14:40.150
when faced with the contingency red ,

14:40.150 --> 14:42.206
which you didn't plan for , it turns

14:42.206 --> 14:44.630
out that by combining in Ted's case ,

14:45.150 --> 14:47.429
existing muscle fibers in a unique way ,

14:47.559 --> 14:49.781
I'm able to solve the red contingency .

14:49.809 --> 14:51.476
That in some sense , that new

14:51.476 --> 14:53.642
combination of capabilities gives me a

14:53.642 --> 14:55.865
new piece of vocabulary , the red box .

14:56.080 --> 14:58.136
Now , in the future , when I'm faced

14:58.136 --> 15:00.580
with a yet a new contingency blue , it

15:00.580 --> 15:02.802
turns out that by combining the , the ,

15:02.802 --> 15:04.802
the new red box with the previously

15:04.802 --> 15:06.636
existing orange boxes , I've got

15:06.636 --> 15:08.691
combinations of sensing and decision

15:08.691 --> 15:10.747
making and actions and collaborative

15:10.747 --> 15:12.969
mechanisms that can solve the loop that

15:12.969 --> 15:15.080
I would never have been able to solve

15:15.080 --> 15:17.358
in my regional orange vocabulary space .

15:17.358 --> 15:19.580
So the , the idea with the animation is

15:19.580 --> 15:21.747
to is to communicate to people what we

15:21.747 --> 15:23.858
mean by anti-fragile . Stressors make

15:23.858 --> 15:26.080
you stronger , and the way , how do you

15:26.080 --> 15:27.969
actually do that ? You do that by

15:27.969 --> 15:30.191
increasing your vocabulary of quality .

15:30.191 --> 15:32.358
But where does , where would you put ,

15:32.358 --> 15:34.191
I could see where , I think it's

15:34.191 --> 15:36.247
provocative this 4th S thing , where

15:36.247 --> 15:39.239
would that go here ? What is the The

15:39.239 --> 15:41.359
stress , is it like maybe number of

15:41.359 --> 15:44.650
boxes or something in this case is the

15:44.650 --> 15:46.919
characteristics to defeat red , that

15:46.919 --> 15:49.086
red target which I didn't anticipate .

15:49.309 --> 15:51.420
Uh , I , none of my orange boxes were

15:51.420 --> 15:53.531
designed to even combined together to

15:53.531 --> 15:55.753
beat red , uh , in their normal mode of

15:55.753 --> 15:57.920
operations . But if in fact , I have a

15:57.920 --> 16:00.087
capability of combining their pieces ,

16:00.087 --> 16:02.420
their attributes together to defeat red ,

16:02.669 --> 16:05.030
I will have addressed that stress . The

16:05.030 --> 16:07.197
stress is the contingency . This thing

16:07.197 --> 16:09.252
you didn't plan for , in this case ,

16:09.252 --> 16:11.363
the red thread . And then even when I

16:11.363 --> 16:13.869
saw that , I had another threat , blue ,

16:14.119 --> 16:15.919
and neither red nor orange by

16:15.919 --> 16:17.919
themselves can defeat that . But it

16:17.919 --> 16:20.479
turns out that by combining my newly uh

16:20.479 --> 16:23.280
acquired piece of vocabulary red with

16:23.280 --> 16:25.700
the existing vocabulary pieces orange ,

16:25.880 --> 16:27.880
I'd come up with a solution to this

16:27.880 --> 16:30.369
blue stretcher . Thank you .

16:34.150 --> 16:36.929
All right . Final thoughts From folks ,

16:36.969 --> 16:39.159
we got a lot of stuff to do today , if

16:39.159 --> 16:41.215
there's , but we have time we can go

16:41.215 --> 16:43.381
over 2 weeks if we want , so no rush .

16:43.381 --> 16:45.715
You know , uh , can I just bring up Yes ,

16:45.780 --> 16:49.200
sir . A movie equalizer . You know ,

16:49.280 --> 16:52.090
Denzel Washington . 12 or

16:52.090 --> 16:55.450
330 , you know you're

16:55.450 --> 16:59.390
equalizer . He's on a train and

17:00.440 --> 17:03.130
he , he's on a train and he's

17:03.130 --> 17:05.849
confronting a guy who's a bad guy , and

17:05.849 --> 17:08.071
he goes up to him and he says , there's

17:08.071 --> 17:10.939
two kinds of pain , pain that hurts .

17:11.578 --> 17:14.009
And pain that alters .

17:16.349 --> 17:19.489
The , you know , the threat there is he

17:19.489 --> 17:21.545
can inflict pain that's gonna change

17:21.545 --> 17:25.280
the guy forever . So , um , that

17:25.280 --> 17:28.599
seems like , uh , uh , you know , some

17:28.599 --> 17:31.280
sort of prelude to , uh , pain that

17:31.280 --> 17:33.760
hurts is , uh , well , I'll fix it ,

17:33.829 --> 17:35.940
and I'm not gonna learn anything from

17:35.940 --> 17:38.051
it . I'm not gonna get It's not gonna

17:38.051 --> 17:41.319
change me . Pain that alters and , you

17:41.319 --> 17:43.486
know , I have some personal experience

17:43.486 --> 17:45.375
with that . I broke my leg once ,

17:45.375 --> 17:48.800
skiing . And after that , I developed a

17:48.800 --> 17:52.030
mild case , relatively mild case of uh

17:52.030 --> 17:55.449
vertigo . Which I didn't have before .

17:55.790 --> 17:57.989
So it altered me , uh , even though I

17:57.989 --> 17:59.989
sort of went into shock and I never

17:59.989 --> 18:03.920
felt the pain . Um , of breaking my leg .

18:06.609 --> 18:08.498
At some level , it altered me , I

18:08.498 --> 18:11.969
developed vertigo . So ,

18:12.300 --> 18:15.650
um , I think another part of this , uh ,

18:15.900 --> 18:19.699
is , um , What I'm getting at is That

18:19.699 --> 18:23.270
um the altering can be done in some

18:24.650 --> 18:26.510
Not obvious way . Oh

18:29.030 --> 18:31.260
Sorry , I got a cold . Um

18:33.439 --> 18:36.760
Anyway , so , in , in uh some

18:36.760 --> 18:39.349
non-obvious , not programmed way .

18:41.060 --> 18:44.010
I didn't develop vertigo deliberately .

18:45.550 --> 18:48.640
Sort of another example where I did

18:48.640 --> 18:51.890
develop a Uh , something had altered me .

18:52.140 --> 18:54.196
Like over the years , uh , I think a

18:54.196 --> 18:56.362
lot of people , you know , you do home

18:56.362 --> 18:59.489
repairs and are used to , and , and ,

18:59.500 --> 19:02.150
um , you know , what would be common is

19:02.150 --> 19:05.060
I I'd have a screwdriver trying to

19:05.060 --> 19:09.010
loosen something or uh we , you know ,

19:09.180 --> 19:12.619
trying to uh pull something off a rusty

19:12.619 --> 19:16.579
car or something . And I cut myself .

19:16.839 --> 19:18.728
I used to get a lot of cuts on my

19:18.728 --> 19:21.520
fingers and on my hands and stuff from

19:22.010 --> 19:24.719
those sorts of things . And then , um ,

19:25.010 --> 19:27.177
I noticed the last few years when I do

19:27.177 --> 19:29.959
that stuff , like I'm really deliberate ,

19:30.069 --> 19:32.849
and I sort of say , OK , I , how should

19:32.849 --> 19:36.439
I place the uh the screwdriver

19:36.439 --> 19:40.369
or uh any other tool in a way that

19:40.369 --> 19:42.536
I'm not gonna hurt myself . And so for

19:42.536 --> 19:45.560
the last few years , I've developed

19:45.560 --> 19:47.671
that skill , and that was conscious .

19:48.130 --> 19:50.550
Right , I thought about that . How can

19:50.550 --> 19:52.606
I avoid those situations where I get

19:52.606 --> 19:53.810
hurt ? anyway .

19:58.030 --> 20:02.020
Rover Some comments that hurt and

20:02.020 --> 20:04.187
comments that alter us . We appreciate

20:04.187 --> 20:06.959
the altering comments . Uh , let's ,

20:07.079 --> 20:09.246
let's , uh , if you don't mind , let's

20:09.246 --> 20:11.301
move on to Will . I'm gonna give him

20:11.301 --> 20:13.523
plenty of time . His call sign , by the

20:13.523 --> 20:15.190
way , is bed check . Separate

20:15.190 --> 20:16.468
conversation on that .

20:20.089 --> 20:22.200
Will you good to go ? I think I , I'm

20:22.200 --> 20:24.367
not sure you're working with Jared . I

20:24.367 --> 20:26.589
know he's on vacation . Are you good to

20:26.589 --> 20:28.700
just kind of launch into this or um ,

20:28.700 --> 20:30.422
yeah , cool , thanks brother .

20:33.839 --> 20:36.099
OK , so my name is William Crane . Uh ,

20:36.180 --> 20:38.069
this is my first year as a formal

20:38.069 --> 20:41.369
intern , um , and Jared is my mentor .

20:41.739 --> 20:43.850
Um , so this summer I've been working

20:43.850 --> 20:45.961
on seeing how we can use the language

20:45.961 --> 20:48.183
of category theory in order to optimize

20:48.183 --> 20:50.517
co-design problems compositionally . Uh ,

20:50.517 --> 20:52.461
first , we have to understand what

20:52.461 --> 20:54.350
co-design means , uh , and what a

20:54.350 --> 20:56.517
co-design problem is , because when we

20:56.517 --> 20:58.572
get a better grasp of how we can use

20:58.572 --> 21:00.461
the tools within applied category

21:00.461 --> 21:02.739
theory for these optimization problems .

21:02.739 --> 21:05.449
So , Um ,

21:06.339 --> 21:08.561
So for a better definition of codeine ,

21:08.719 --> 21:10.497
um , code design represents the

21:10.497 --> 21:12.108
simultaneous optimization of

21:12.108 --> 21:14.199
interconnected subsystems where

21:14.199 --> 21:16.359
functionality , implementation , and

21:16.359 --> 21:18.199
resources exist in a dynamic

21:18.199 --> 21:21.319
equilibrium , uh , compared to a

21:21.319 --> 21:23.760
hierarchical dependence . So unlike

21:23.760 --> 21:25.816
traditional , uh , sequential design

21:25.816 --> 21:27.982
approaches , co-design problems emerge

21:27.982 --> 21:30.410
with subsystem interdependencies , uh ,

21:30.420 --> 21:32.364
create this recursive optimization

21:32.364 --> 21:34.309
constraint . Uh , and it cannot be

21:34.309 --> 21:36.309
decomposed without losing essential

21:36.309 --> 21:39.530
system properties . Um , so design

21:39.530 --> 21:42.650
problems formally are stated as couples

21:42.650 --> 21:44.872
of a functionality space , which can be

21:44.872 --> 21:47.819
shown in that graphic image . Um , an

21:47.819 --> 21:49.819
implementation space and a resource

21:49.819 --> 21:52.630
space . And together , this is all on

21:52.630 --> 21:55.750
an interface um of a feasibility

21:55.750 --> 21:57.829
relation that relates to these three

21:57.829 --> 21:59.829
domains , uh , which is where the

21:59.829 --> 22:01.885
global interface is formed and where

22:01.885 --> 22:05.069
these dynamic spaces exist . So , if we

22:05.069 --> 22:06.569
notice how functionality ,

22:06.569 --> 22:08.736
implementation , and resources are not

22:08.736 --> 22:11.069
arranged in a hierarchy , they form

22:11.069 --> 22:13.236
this compositional triangle where each

22:13.236 --> 22:15.469
domain simultaneously constrains and

22:15.469 --> 22:18.380
enables the other . Um , traditional

22:18.380 --> 22:20.602
engineering approaches , assume you can

22:20.602 --> 22:22.491
design , typically assume you can

22:22.491 --> 22:24.491
design subsystems independently and

22:24.491 --> 22:26.547
then integrate them . However , this

22:26.547 --> 22:28.602
theory of co-design proves that this

22:28.602 --> 22:30.658
assumption fails for ever increasing

22:30.658 --> 22:33.719
complex systems . Um , I do believe

22:33.719 --> 22:36.670
this can mirror , uh , how the brain

22:36.670 --> 22:38.959
implements a modular yet integrated

22:38.959 --> 22:41.109
cognitive architecture . I'm not

22:41.239 --> 22:44.680
familiar with neuroscience though , so

22:44.680 --> 22:46.791
take this with a grain of salt . Um ,

22:46.791 --> 22:48.680
but I do believe that where these

22:48.680 --> 22:50.736
distinct modules maintain functional

22:50.736 --> 22:52.791
autonomy , while connector nodes can

22:52.791 --> 22:54.902
enable between module communication ,

22:55.160 --> 22:58.869
um , But I think it's worth pursuing in

22:58.869 --> 23:01.489
this context of co-design to better

23:01.489 --> 23:03.656
understand and model how our brain and

23:03.656 --> 23:05.267
cognition cursively optimize

23:05.267 --> 23:07.660
physiological and conscious processes ,

23:08.069 --> 23:09.680
um , because it creates this

23:09.680 --> 23:11.902
multi-objective and multi-domain system

23:11.902 --> 23:14.810
of self . Uh , so for the next slide .

23:15.880 --> 23:18.339
Uh , we also need to develop this

23:18.339 --> 23:20.061
understanding of compositional

23:20.061 --> 23:22.540
optimization . Uh , so the traditional

23:22.540 --> 23:24.707
response to solving co-design problems

23:24.707 --> 23:26.873
is to break the system into pieces and

23:26.873 --> 23:28.984
optimize it separately . Uh , we just

23:28.984 --> 23:31.040
learned why that fails , as it loses

23:31.040 --> 23:33.207
the recursive dependencies that define

23:33.207 --> 23:35.420
system behavior . So the essence is to

23:35.420 --> 23:37.900
decompose this monolithic complex

23:37.900 --> 23:40.869
system , um , with coupled optimization

23:40.869 --> 23:43.069
into this manageable substance or

23:43.069 --> 23:45.329
manageable substances . Uh , to be

23:45.329 --> 23:47.496
solved independently , and then we can

23:47.496 --> 23:49.440
recompose them to obtain this near

23:49.440 --> 23:52.449
optimal a global solution . So the

23:52.449 --> 23:54.505
difference between the compositional

23:54.505 --> 23:56.671
solution is that instead of optimizing

23:56.671 --> 23:58.727
the parts in isolation , uh , we can

23:58.727 --> 24:00.560
pose optimization problems while

24:00.560 --> 24:02.893
preserving their interdependencies . Uh ,

24:02.893 --> 24:04.616
so this gives us an analytical

24:04.616 --> 24:06.727
tractability of decomposition without

24:06.727 --> 24:09.060
sacrificing , uh , a mathematical rigor .

24:09.680 --> 24:13.050
So , the benefits for scalability , uh ,

24:13.060 --> 24:15.640
is that these parallel development or

24:15.640 --> 24:17.584
in modular reasoning , which makes

24:17.584 --> 24:20.140
development um and these different

24:20.140 --> 24:22.540
teams work together on a different

24:22.540 --> 24:24.540
compositional modules , while these

24:24.540 --> 24:26.596
mathematical frameworks , which I'll

24:26.596 --> 24:29.469
get to in a in a couple slides , ensure

24:29.469 --> 24:31.802
that their integration remains coherent .

24:32.000 --> 24:35.150
So , the analytical tractability , the

24:35.619 --> 24:37.563
uh and the compositional preserves

24:37.563 --> 24:39.563
these guarantees , so you get local

24:39.563 --> 24:42.729
reasoning with a global optimality , um ,

24:42.739 --> 24:44.961
and it's a generalized application , so

24:44.961 --> 24:47.930
it can be transferable across domains ,

24:48.239 --> 24:50.609
um , for instance , whether it be in

24:50.609 --> 24:53.180
neuroscience or in engineering contexts .

24:53.890 --> 24:57.199
Uh , now , um , in

24:57.199 --> 25:01.010
my case , we decided to use the Job

25:01.010 --> 25:03.569
shop scheduling problem because it

25:03.569 --> 25:05.849
creates this perfect , uh , laboratory

25:05.849 --> 25:07.960
for demonstrating these principles of

25:07.960 --> 25:10.890
action . Um , so it's this I think is a

25:10.890 --> 25:12.979
good example of compositional

25:12.979 --> 25:15.257
complexity . So if we look at the , uh ,

25:15.369 --> 25:17.480
the graph up there , those are called

25:17.480 --> 25:19.500
disjunctive graphs . And we can see

25:19.500 --> 25:21.420
different number of jobs flowing

25:21.420 --> 25:23.587
through machines with these precedence

25:23.587 --> 25:26.619
constraints . Um , those are typically

25:26.619 --> 25:29.380
temporal . So each job machine

25:29.380 --> 25:31.630
interaction creates local optimization

25:31.630 --> 25:33.797
requirements , but the global schedule

25:33.797 --> 25:36.810
uh emerges from their composition . So

25:37.020 --> 25:40.849
a JSSP is typically , well , will

25:40.849 --> 25:43.569
always contain , uh , jobs , machines ,

25:43.579 --> 25:46.520
and precedent constraints . Um , and

25:46.520 --> 25:49.319
they're always labeled as a monolithic

25:49.319 --> 25:52.229
disjunctive graph , which Basically

25:52.229 --> 25:55.189
takes into account all those different

25:55.189 --> 25:58.229
dynamics for job shop problem . So we

25:58.229 --> 26:00.340
can treat this monolithic destructive

26:00.340 --> 26:02.430
graph as one massive optimization

26:02.430 --> 26:04.152
problem where every constraint

26:04.152 --> 26:06.374
interacts with every other constraint ,

26:06.374 --> 26:08.597
and it's exactly the kind of complexity

26:08.597 --> 26:10.708
that hits um this computational walls

26:10.708 --> 26:13.939
as systems scale and complexity . So we

26:13.939 --> 26:15.661
can naturally , JSSP naturally

26:15.661 --> 26:17.819
decomposes into these compositional

26:17.819 --> 26:20.500
elements , so jobs listed as functional

26:20.500 --> 26:22.222
requirements , machines as our

26:22.222 --> 26:24.329
implement implementation resources ,

26:24.619 --> 26:26.420
and precedents as architectural

26:26.420 --> 26:28.550
constraints , uh , which map directly

26:28.550 --> 26:30.699
onto our co-design framework of

26:30.699 --> 26:32.755
functionality , implementation , and

26:32.755 --> 26:34.859
resources , which is uh stated

26:34.859 --> 26:38.780
previously . So , On

26:38.780 --> 26:41.619
our next slide , um , this goes over

26:41.619 --> 26:43.230
how we actually conduct this

26:43.230 --> 26:45.341
compositional optimization as applied

26:45.341 --> 26:47.579
category theory , um , gives us a

26:47.579 --> 26:49.135
mathematical language where

26:49.135 --> 26:51.246
relationships between things are just

26:51.246 --> 26:53.468
as important as the things themselves .

26:53.780 --> 26:55.613
Instead of having just tasks and

26:55.613 --> 26:57.724
machines , we have tasks , machines ,

26:57.724 --> 26:59.836
and the relationships between them as

26:59.836 --> 27:02.113
mathematical objects we can manipulate .

27:02.380 --> 27:05.729
So , for A reference like as

27:05.729 --> 27:07.840
probability theory is the language of

27:07.840 --> 27:09.951
distributions of probability spaces ,

27:09.951 --> 27:12.173
category theory is more of the language

27:12.173 --> 27:13.896
of compositionality . um , and

27:13.896 --> 27:15.673
traditional optimization treats

27:15.673 --> 27:17.729
problems as an isolated mathematical

27:17.729 --> 27:19.785
objects where category theory treats

27:19.785 --> 27:21.340
these nodes in a network of

27:21.340 --> 27:23.451
relationships . So , which is exactly

27:23.451 --> 27:25.562
what co-design problems are , um , as

27:25.562 --> 27:27.673
category theory offers a mathematical

27:27.673 --> 27:29.673
language that formalizes how we can

27:29.673 --> 27:32.010
optimize these , um , and how they

27:32.010 --> 27:35.829
connect . So , on the next slide , this

27:35.829 --> 27:38.510
is a snippet from a white paper that

27:38.510 --> 27:40.566
I'm working on , uh , that goes into

27:40.566 --> 27:43.030
some of the actual definitions in

27:43.030 --> 27:45.949
category theory . Um , and one of the

27:45.949 --> 27:48.171
key aspects of this is something called

27:48.171 --> 27:50.349
a push up construction , which we can

27:50.349 --> 27:52.699
see in the upper right diagram , uh ,

27:52.709 --> 27:54.820
which is the heart of our categorical

27:54.820 --> 27:56.709
approach , as in traditional JSSP

27:56.709 --> 27:58.653
instances , uh , when you have two

27:58.653 --> 28:00.765
scheduling subsystems that you , that

28:00.765 --> 28:03.550
have shared resources . Uh , you face

28:03.550 --> 28:06.040
complex interdependency management and

28:06.040 --> 28:08.207
the categorical push out . The pushout

28:08.207 --> 28:10.373
gives us a mathematically rigorous way

28:10.373 --> 28:12.760
to compose these systems , um , on a

28:12.760 --> 28:14.869
global interface , so it preserves

28:15.160 --> 28:17.439
global constraints as well as local

28:17.439 --> 28:20.900
constraints . So , and those are

28:20.900 --> 28:24.010
labeled as shown as P up there ,

28:24.540 --> 28:26.979
um , and it gives us a unique optimal

28:26.979 --> 28:29.849
way to compose two different graphs .

28:30.500 --> 28:32.556
Uh , there's G1 and G2 are different

28:32.556 --> 28:34.444
disjunctive graphs and a job shop

28:34.444 --> 28:36.250
problem . So it's not heuristic

28:36.250 --> 28:38.810
composition , it's more of an optimal

28:38.810 --> 28:41.032
uh composition , which is guaranteed by

28:41.032 --> 28:43.800
these categorical properties . Um ,

28:44.609 --> 28:48.540
So , on our next slide . This wraps up ,

28:48.640 --> 28:52.250
um , basically the , the backing , like

28:52.250 --> 28:55.449
the theory and environment . So now we

28:55.449 --> 28:57.890
can move on the implementation . Um ,

28:58.099 --> 29:00.043
so after we build this theoretical

29:00.043 --> 29:02.210
foundation of co-design theory , which

29:02.210 --> 29:04.432
gives us this framework for composition

29:04.432 --> 29:06.432
optimization , and applied category

29:06.432 --> 29:08.599
theory provides the formal language to

29:08.599 --> 29:11.819
express these ideas , um , JSSP gives

29:11.819 --> 29:14.170
us this concrete mathematical , uh ,

29:14.180 --> 29:16.729
laboratory structure to model these

29:16.729 --> 29:19.949
complex interconnected subsystems . Um ,

29:21.219 --> 29:23.880
OK , so in the next slide , we have

29:23.880 --> 29:25.880
some , I have some snippets of code

29:25.880 --> 29:29.160
that I worked on . So this is the

29:29.160 --> 29:31.849
initial setup for the how I implemented

29:32.319 --> 29:35.640
uh the theory behind the work . So the

29:35.640 --> 29:37.418
scaling challenge is that every

29:37.418 --> 29:39.418
additional layer , because we would

29:39.418 --> 29:41.307
take these disjunctive graphs and

29:41.307 --> 29:43.589
partition them into smaller substances ,

29:43.880 --> 29:46.560
um , and every additional layer of this

29:46.560 --> 29:48.959
theoretical sophistication multiplies

29:48.959 --> 29:51.890
the implementation complexity . Um , so

29:51.890 --> 29:55.599
when the mathematics is on the edge of

29:55.599 --> 29:57.630
research , you can't really rely on

29:57.630 --> 29:59.686
existing computational frameworks as

29:59.686 --> 30:01.463
much . So you have to build the

30:01.463 --> 30:03.630
frameworks as you solve the problems .

30:03.630 --> 30:05.599
Now , luckily , there is a , um ,

30:06.170 --> 30:08.170
something called an algebraic Julia

30:08.170 --> 30:10.930
ecosystem . That works in the Julia

30:10.930 --> 30:13.152
programming language that provides some

30:13.152 --> 30:15.680
tools . Uh , in order to handle these

30:15.680 --> 30:18.079
categorical operations . However , it

30:18.079 --> 30:19.801
was very difficult to actually

30:19.801 --> 30:21.912
implement them within the language of

30:21.912 --> 30:24.135
Julia , because I had a bunch of , uh ,

30:24.135 --> 30:26.560
library connecting issues . So there

30:26.560 --> 30:28.004
needs to be a more robust

30:28.004 --> 30:30.116
implementation , uh , in the future .

30:30.619 --> 30:32.730
So , some of the key results though ,

30:32.730 --> 30:36.349
is that the JSSP . is modeled as these

30:36.349 --> 30:39.189
layered subproblems , and we have local

30:39.189 --> 30:41.750
uh solutions that also interact with

30:41.750 --> 30:44.520
the uh when composed will form a global

30:44.520 --> 30:47.630
optimality . Um , and it guarantees

30:47.630 --> 30:50.160
that we have an acyclic directed graph

30:50.589 --> 30:53.380
which is needed in order to form an

30:53.380 --> 30:57.079
optimal chop shop , uh . Problem

30:57.979 --> 31:00.160
So , this initial setup is where we

31:00.160 --> 31:02.920
define our JSSB category formally , and

31:02.920 --> 31:05.142
tasks and machines become objects , not

31:05.142 --> 31:07.309
just data structures , but the objects

31:07.309 --> 31:09.364
with morphisms between them . Just a

31:10.109 --> 31:12.220
quick , quick question here , sorry .

31:12.220 --> 31:14.442
Um , is there , um , there doesn't seem

31:14.442 --> 31:16.442
to be any recursion here . Would we

31:16.442 --> 31:18.053
expect that this can be done

31:18.053 --> 31:19.776
iteratively or should there be

31:19.776 --> 31:22.053
recursion as the graphs are decomposed ?

31:22.829 --> 31:26.079
And then , and then reintegrated . What ,

31:26.199 --> 31:28.310
sorry , what do you mean by recursion

31:28.310 --> 31:30.199
exactly ? Recursion like uh solve

31:30.199 --> 31:32.599
compositional isn't calling itself . I

31:32.599 --> 31:34.877
was wondering if one would expect that ,

31:34.877 --> 31:36.988
or is there not a reason for is there

31:36.988 --> 31:39.210
no reason for recursion in this ? I'm ,

31:39.210 --> 31:41.400
yeah , so typically , yes , uh , this

31:41.400 --> 31:44.869
is why this code was not robust enough ,

31:45.239 --> 31:47.350
because again , the implementation is

31:47.350 --> 31:49.406
pretty difficult , uh , and I do not

31:49.406 --> 31:51.517
have the skills to actually implement

31:51.517 --> 31:55.280
it well . So this is just a toy example ,

31:55.410 --> 31:57.354
but yes , there would be typically

31:57.354 --> 31:59.449
recursion , um , in order to

31:59.449 --> 32:01.338
iteratively refine the partitions

32:01.338 --> 32:03.699
itself . Uh , so then you can actually

32:03.699 --> 32:06.930
form this local optimum . All right .

32:08.839 --> 32:11.390
OK . So , so this , this example works

32:11.390 --> 32:13.949
for a problem of a limited uh Yeah ,

32:14.189 --> 32:16.245
yeah , it's a contrived example , so

32:16.245 --> 32:18.411
it's kind of like hacking , uh , where

32:18.411 --> 32:20.689
you just put one junto graph in itself .

32:20.689 --> 32:23.030
OK , awesome . Thanks . Mhm .

32:25.010 --> 32:27.530
So , some of the lessons learned , um ,

32:27.810 --> 32:30.050
I mentioned previously the overestimate

32:30.050 --> 32:32.839
estimation of my implementation skills .

32:33.209 --> 32:35.290
And I , but that led to a deeper

32:35.609 --> 32:37.969
insight that theory does not shield you

32:37.969 --> 32:40.400
from the shallow mistakes of

32:40.729 --> 32:43.209
implementation . And the biggest cost

32:43.209 --> 32:45.376
of this was time , because refactoring

32:45.376 --> 32:47.709
these tools and libraries made projects ,

32:47.709 --> 32:49.876
uh , which should have been scoped out

32:49.876 --> 32:51.987
early , was extremely difficult , and

32:52.089 --> 32:55.540
it was unnecessarily complex . But I do

32:55.540 --> 32:58.089
think this can lead to future works for

32:58.089 --> 33:00.209
building on a recent work in

33:00.209 --> 33:02.729
cyber-physical systems , which use a

33:02.729 --> 33:04.673
lot of these uh tools and category

33:04.673 --> 33:07.119
theory actually , uh , in order to

33:07.729 --> 33:10.410
apply that to a job shops adjacent

33:10.410 --> 33:12.969
problem , but it was on an actual jobb

33:12.969 --> 33:16.380
shop floor , not in a , um , abstract

33:16.380 --> 33:18.729
disjunctive graph . So at the start of

33:18.729 --> 33:20.849
this project , um , with the help of

33:20.849 --> 33:22.849
Jared , of course , I would develop

33:22.849 --> 33:24.738
some of the map . On how we would

33:24.738 --> 33:26.571
battle , model and approach this

33:26.571 --> 33:28.627
problem and research those methods .

33:28.627 --> 33:30.405
And it first took me to a paper

33:30.405 --> 33:33.300
released in 1980 . And as I iteratively

33:33.300 --> 33:35.467
uh got closer and closer to the future

33:35.467 --> 33:38.670
of math in this um subject , I

33:38.670 --> 33:40.448
eventually got to that paper in

33:40.448 --> 33:42.337
cyberphysical Systems , which was

33:42.337 --> 33:44.503
released a couple of months ago . Um ,

33:44.503 --> 33:46.392
so I think the next step would be

33:46.392 --> 33:48.559
building on that recent work and could

33:48.559 --> 33:51.750
lead to a publication . Um , so now the

33:51.750 --> 33:53.560
foundation is built . And the

33:53.560 --> 33:55.709
trajectory , of course , is to flesh

33:55.709 --> 33:57.931
out a more robust implementation that's

33:57.931 --> 34:01.260
less brittle , um , like with recur

34:01.260 --> 34:03.989
that adds a more robust recursion to it ,

34:04.239 --> 34:07.000
uh , for refining these partitions and

34:07.000 --> 34:08.833
further developing the pieces of

34:08.833 --> 34:10.944
applied category theory that I worked

34:10.944 --> 34:14.840
on . Um , so now I open it up to

34:14.840 --> 34:17.159
the next uh to my question on quality

34:17.159 --> 34:19.439
of the quest . Um , because my

34:19.439 --> 34:21.606
understanding of Folia is that they're

34:21.606 --> 34:23.772
not properties of a system state , but

34:23.772 --> 34:26.280
rather the subjective manifestation of

34:26.280 --> 34:27.947
the system navigating its own

34:27.947 --> 34:30.113
dynamically optimized solution space ,

34:30.280 --> 34:32.350
which is , in essence , it's , uh ,

34:32.360 --> 34:34.600
what is it , what is it like ? What's

34:34.600 --> 34:36.378
the likeness of something of an

34:36.378 --> 34:39.280
experience , um , uh , this experience

34:39.280 --> 34:41.719
that's highly optimized , and I think

34:41.719 --> 34:43.879
you could approach this from a

34:43.879 --> 34:46.949
co-design perspective . Um , we're an

34:46.949 --> 34:49.550
efficient operational regime that was

34:49.550 --> 34:51.709
honed by evolution and learned , uh ,

34:51.719 --> 34:53.830
and learning over time . So we have

34:53.830 --> 34:56.909
this ever-increasing optimized uh

34:56.909 --> 34:59.540
cognitive structure in the brain , um .

35:00.629 --> 35:03.620
So that's my question is , uh , if

35:03.620 --> 35:06.929
consciousness emerges from a more

35:06.929 --> 35:09.040
refined compositional optimization of

35:09.040 --> 35:11.949
neural resources , and if these JSSP

35:11.949 --> 35:13.949
like mathematics can model parallel

35:13.949 --> 35:16.189
processing , um , with temporal

35:16.189 --> 35:18.360
constraints and resource allocation .

35:18.709 --> 35:20.709
So could compositional optimization

35:20.709 --> 35:22.820
provide more of a formal mathematical

35:22.820 --> 35:26.250
foundation um for understandinglaia ? I ,

35:26.290 --> 35:30.129
I don't know . I do not know , um , the

35:30.129 --> 35:32.010
quest talks well enough , so I'm

35:32.010 --> 35:33.954
curious about this . You're gone .

35:37.520 --> 35:38.520
You say .

35:41.969 --> 35:43.879
Any questions for uh that check ?

35:45.800 --> 35:48.719
Uh , yeah , I've got a question . So ,

35:48.929 --> 35:51.096
uh , just , uh , two things . One is ,

35:51.169 --> 35:54.919
um , In in sort of uh

35:55.189 --> 35:58.350
uh classical job shop scheduling .

35:59.090 --> 36:01.389
It's an example that's used as an NP

36:01.389 --> 36:03.860
hard or NP complete problem , meaning

36:04.379 --> 36:08.250
it's as hard as any um Basically

36:08.250 --> 36:10.528
any problem that we're trying to solve ,

36:10.528 --> 36:12.750
like traveling salesmen and things like

36:12.750 --> 36:16.280
that . So Job shops scheduling in my

36:16.280 --> 36:20.209
world is a hard problem , and uh what

36:20.209 --> 36:23.129
I'm not getting is uh in your

36:23.129 --> 36:26.860
formulation in terms of uh a category

36:26.860 --> 36:30.260
constructs , where's the complexity

36:30.260 --> 36:33.929
showing up is , I mean , cause , cause

36:33.929 --> 36:36.050
one takeaway I've got is you've got a

36:36.050 --> 36:38.370
way to formulate a job shop scheduling

36:38.370 --> 36:40.314
problem in this layered approach .

36:40.959 --> 36:43.439
Using category theory , and then you

36:43.439 --> 36:45.550
get it , I think your own words , you

36:45.550 --> 36:48.520
say you can efficiently solve that . So

36:48.520 --> 36:51.270
in , in the picture of NP completeness ,

36:51.800 --> 36:53.911
that means that the hard part is , is

36:53.911 --> 36:56.949
getting the representation . Computing

36:56.949 --> 36:59.449
the representation is exponentially

36:59.449 --> 37:03.360
hard . If the consequent is that you

37:03.360 --> 37:05.830
get a simple solution . So , have you

37:05.830 --> 37:08.052
sort of teased that out ? Where's there

37:08.052 --> 37:10.590
there's some complexity . In the

37:10.590 --> 37:13.479
approach that's somehow not evident .

37:15.929 --> 37:19.320
Hm Anyway ,

37:19.790 --> 37:21.957
that's something to think about , uh ,

37:21.957 --> 37:23.846
cause , you know , uh , Jock shop

37:23.846 --> 37:26.469
scheduling is a hard optimization

37:26.469 --> 37:28.870
problem . Then the other comment I'll

37:28.870 --> 37:31.037
make , so it may be something to think

37:31.037 --> 37:33.148
about . The other , uh , or you could

37:33.148 --> 37:35.314
contact me and we can discuss it . The

37:35.314 --> 37:37.419
other thing is , um , You know , in

37:37.419 --> 37:39.252
nature , and when you talk about

37:39.252 --> 37:42.530
evolution and stuff , I think um uh

37:42.699 --> 37:45.760
there's a difference between Optimal

37:45.760 --> 37:47.871
solutions and good enough solutions ,

37:47.959 --> 37:50.719
right ? So , most of , uh , most of the

37:50.719 --> 37:53.110
world evolves to , it's good enough to ,

37:53.679 --> 37:55.929
uh , carve out its niche and whatever

37:55.929 --> 37:58.520
ecosystem it's living . There's no , I

37:58.520 --> 38:00.687
don't think there's any claim that any

38:00.687 --> 38:03.189
solution . That comes out of uh

38:03.540 --> 38:06.280
evolution is uh optimal , right ? It's

38:06.280 --> 38:08.224
good enough , it's better than the

38:08.224 --> 38:11.100
other stuff . So yeah , so that's how

38:11.100 --> 38:13.060
we kind of modeled um when solving

38:13.060 --> 38:16.620
these ever like complex uh disjunctive

38:16.620 --> 38:18.564
graphs is that we just have a good

38:18.564 --> 38:21.500
enough solution so we can model to see

38:21.500 --> 38:24.620
how complex a solution can be before we

38:24.620 --> 38:26.979
actually . So that your answer might

38:26.979 --> 38:29.860
answer my first comment about you're

38:29.860 --> 38:31.693
not really computing necessarily

38:31.693 --> 38:33.979
optimal solutions , but approximations

38:33.979 --> 38:36.760
or things that are good enough . And

38:36.760 --> 38:39.070
then I get it . Yeah , yeah , so it's

38:39.070 --> 38:42.800
more like , yeah . OK . Nice .

38:52.209 --> 38:55.820
Rockstar , hey , how are you ? Um .

38:57.629 --> 39:00.739
I want you to consider what I put here

39:00.739 --> 39:04.080
in the uh chat . When Jared comes back ,

39:04.179 --> 39:07.100
we have a colleague , Jared and I , by

39:07.100 --> 39:10.939
the name of David Spivak , and I think

39:10.939 --> 39:13.500
your thinking would really benefit from

39:13.500 --> 39:16.820
a half hour thinking session on what

39:16.820 --> 39:20.090
you're trying to do and what David does .

39:21.149 --> 39:24.110
After the day , look up some of his

39:24.110 --> 39:27.350
work . His work in category theory is

39:27.350 --> 39:30.510
outstanding . That's how I was learning

39:30.560 --> 39:33.229
uh the fundamentals of category theory .

39:33.580 --> 39:36.120
Um , I first heard of Spivak on a

39:36.120 --> 39:38.287
machine learning street talk podcast .

39:38.287 --> 39:40.800
Yeah , Spivak has been around with

39:40.800 --> 39:43.133
myself and a few others for a long time .

39:43.320 --> 39:45.959
A really good MIT guy who's now

39:45.959 --> 39:48.520
spending too much , too much time away

39:48.520 --> 39:52.469
from Cambridge . Really good

39:52.469 --> 39:55.250
talk . I really enjoyed it . Thank you .

39:56.060 --> 39:58.800
You're welcome . Yeah , great job ,

39:58.860 --> 40:02.649
Will . Do we have a

40:02.780 --> 40:04.391
maybe a last question here ?

40:06.620 --> 40:10.479
Anything in the room or online ? Did

40:10.479 --> 40:12.439
we answer Will's question about uh

40:12.439 --> 40:15.729
Quala ? Can you ask it again , Will ?

40:17.360 --> 40:19.416
You said , is this mathematics , can

40:19.416 --> 40:21.360
this mathematics add value to like

40:21.360 --> 40:23.582
consciousness studies or something like

40:23.582 --> 40:25.638
that , right ? How would you be like

40:25.638 --> 40:29.310
well off the hook here . I , I told you ,

40:29.320 --> 40:33.300
can you , can you go to the slide . I

40:33.300 --> 40:35.467
told him to start by assuming he's God

40:35.739 --> 40:38.260
and , and he's got this challenge of

40:38.260 --> 40:40.419
creating a system that can exist in

40:40.419 --> 40:42.530
this dynamic world where you're faced

40:42.530 --> 40:44.739
with contingency . So God has to

40:44.739 --> 40:46.961
co-design with the environment with all

40:46.961 --> 40:49.409
the pieces of the puzzle . And so that

40:49.409 --> 40:51.409
I , I told him if he's gonna give a

40:51.409 --> 40:53.742
quest talk , he's got a map it into the ,

40:53.742 --> 40:56.076
the question space so people would care ,

40:56.076 --> 40:58.131
and then , and then come back at the

40:58.131 --> 41:00.131
end with the challenge for you . So

41:00.131 --> 41:02.242
that's where that came from . Now you

41:02.242 --> 41:04.465
can try to rephrase it if you'd like to

41:04.465 --> 41:04.389
mention . You know what , I think , I

41:04.389 --> 41:06.929
think that's good . He said step 2 ,

41:07.070 --> 41:09.014
like if I was God , this is what I

41:09.014 --> 41:11.126
would do or something . I saw that on

41:11.126 --> 41:13.348
the slides . Could you go did you go to

41:13.348 --> 41:15.348
the one where you're decomposing it

41:15.348 --> 41:17.403
into the three layers , that slide ?

41:17.919 --> 41:21.899
Yeah , uh , no , this one .

41:22.429 --> 41:24.373
I might have to follow it up off ,

41:24.373 --> 41:26.207
offline to be able to answer the

41:26.207 --> 41:30.010
quality of question . I get . Yeah ,

41:30.189 --> 41:32.356
or post them on the matter most if you

41:32.356 --> 41:34.467
still have access there . That'd be a

41:34.467 --> 41:36.467
good on the quest channel . I don't

41:36.467 --> 41:38.578
have access to Mamo , but I can see .

41:38.729 --> 41:41.840
Nice job . 11 more question , I think

41:41.840 --> 41:44.110
one of the conditions was that you keep

41:44.110 --> 41:46.439
analyzing it as long as it's not until

41:46.439 --> 41:48.661
it's acyclic , I believe . Is that what

41:48.661 --> 41:51.399
it was ? So what does that translate to

41:51.399 --> 41:53.669
quality in any way ? Like , is there ,

41:53.899 --> 41:57.320
what is the property of decomposing the

41:57.320 --> 42:01.060
environment ? Uh , until you get some

42:01.060 --> 42:04.169
kind of , um , some kind of stable

42:04.379 --> 42:06.601
knowledge or representation that stands

42:06.601 --> 42:08.657
on its own , maybe , that it doesn't

42:08.657 --> 42:10.969
need , you at least have a way to

42:10.979 --> 42:14.239
remove . Because if , if you want to

42:14.239 --> 42:17.360
apply knowledge to new situations , you

42:17.360 --> 42:20.229
want to squirrel away something for use

42:20.229 --> 42:22.959
in a novel condition , the you need the

42:22.959 --> 42:25.126
ability to generalize that knowledge ,

42:25.126 --> 42:27.015
right ? And so , I guess I'm just

42:27.015 --> 42:28.792
wondering , is there , is there

42:28.792 --> 42:31.015
something one could say about that that

42:31.015 --> 42:33.070
condition that tells you when you've

42:33.070 --> 42:35.181
identifieduala properly as opposed to

42:35.181 --> 42:37.989
not , right ? Um , any , any thoughts ?

42:39.270 --> 42:43.080
OK . Like does does

42:43.080 --> 42:45.790
acyclic , what would acyclic mean ?

42:47.159 --> 42:49.679
In the is there is there a mapping is

42:49.679 --> 42:52.919
my question , yeah , over . I don't

42:52.919 --> 42:56.399
think I know enough about Qala in order

42:56.399 --> 42:58.343
to know how that would translate .

43:01.250 --> 43:03.417
Well , the , the slide I was trying to

43:03.417 --> 43:05.583
think of was the one on where you were

43:05.583 --> 43:07.528
talking about resources versus the

43:07.528 --> 43:09.694
other two ways of like decomposing the

43:09.694 --> 43:11.649
problem or whatever , um , and the

43:11.649 --> 43:13.482
thought there was the resourcing

43:13.482 --> 43:15.770
resources there might map on to that

43:15.770 --> 43:18.209
4th S that Natalie was talking about

43:18.209 --> 43:20.530
with the stress , maybe based on

43:20.530 --> 43:23.479
available resources , um . Anyways ,

43:23.570 --> 43:25.626
that was , that was the half thought

43:25.626 --> 43:27.681
that I had while you were talking of

43:27.681 --> 43:30.429
how you can map the S3 or S4Q onto how

43:30.429 --> 43:33.750
you were um putting uh uh uh mapping

43:33.750 --> 43:35.806
out the problem here . I'll put I'll

43:35.806 --> 43:37.694
try to put more thought into it .

43:37.694 --> 43:39.917
Thanks , man . Mhm yeah . I just wanted

43:39.917 --> 43:42.083
to , well , first I just wanted to say

43:42.083 --> 43:44.194
that Will did a great job , um , uh ,

43:44.194 --> 43:47.469
but also , uh , this paper , Kevin that

43:47.469 --> 43:50.389
you posted on Mattermost , the , the

43:50.669 --> 43:53.040
hierarchical reasoning model . I just

43:53.040 --> 43:55.449
got through it very interesting , and

43:55.600 --> 43:57.544
it feels to me that there are some

43:57.544 --> 44:00.870
connections to To today's presentation .

44:01.280 --> 44:03.919
And you have this theme of um

44:03.919 --> 44:06.600
simultaneously optimizing these sort of

44:06.600 --> 44:09.629
temporally uh distinct um

44:09.840 --> 44:12.800
modules . It's all , you know ,

44:13.550 --> 44:16.909
Uh , where , where the modules are , um ,

44:17.080 --> 44:20.510
you know , 11 operates at , at , uh ,

44:20.520 --> 44:22.631
high frequency and the other at lower

44:22.631 --> 44:23.631
frequency .

44:26.500 --> 44:29.100
You see the connection ? Anyway , so ,

44:29.139 --> 44:31.306
well , I , I , I'm putting together an

44:31.306 --> 44:33.417
email and copying a bunch of people .

44:33.417 --> 44:35.528
I'd be curious about your thoughts on

44:35.528 --> 44:37.750
today's presentation about this paper .

44:37.750 --> 44:39.806
Bob , you should put Ken Gish . He's

44:39.806 --> 44:41.806
online here . He , he's the one who

44:41.806 --> 44:45.090
sent me that model . Try to connect him

44:45.090 --> 44:47.201
on that email too if you don't mind .

44:47.649 --> 44:48.649
Thanks , man .

44:51.580 --> 44:55.530
Last Uh , last thoughts

44:55.530 --> 44:57.850
here . I have a question I'd like to

44:57.850 --> 45:00.520
ask . Um , so first of all , great

45:00.520 --> 45:02.187
presentation . This was super

45:02.187 --> 45:04.489
interesting . Um , I've worked with the

45:04.489 --> 45:07.330
job shop problem a little bit , and I

45:07.330 --> 45:09.497
might have missed this cause I think I

45:09.497 --> 45:11.552
missed the first part of your talk .

45:11.552 --> 45:13.760
But , um , can you expand a little bit

45:13.760 --> 45:17.110
on where the , um , Like

45:17.110 --> 45:20.790
nested solution kind of comes

45:20.790 --> 45:23.229
from , um , with the respect to the job

45:23.229 --> 45:26.110
shop problem . Like , what , can you

45:26.110 --> 45:27.943
give an example of like what the

45:27.943 --> 45:30.166
subproblem would be that you're solving

45:30.166 --> 45:31.999
it , um , or I don't know if I'm

45:31.999 --> 45:34.221
thinking about it correctly . Yeah , so

45:34.221 --> 45:36.499
when we take these large , uh , graphs ,

45:36.499 --> 45:38.554
so not just these the small examples

45:38.554 --> 45:40.721
that I have on my slides , um , we can

45:40.721 --> 45:42.721
decompose , we can break them apart

45:42.721 --> 45:44.332
into these smaller graphs by

45:44.332 --> 45:46.277
essentially doing something called

45:46.277 --> 45:48.443
graph cutting . Um , or partitioning .

45:48.443 --> 45:51.040
Um , so then when we break those apart ,

45:51.250 --> 45:53.530
they still have a global interface they

45:53.530 --> 45:56.649
interact on , but we can um optimize

45:56.649 --> 45:58.889
them locally and then recompose them

45:58.889 --> 46:01.111
later to form a global optimum that's ,

46:01.169 --> 46:04.949
well , near optimum . Is

46:04.949 --> 46:07.790
that OK , yeah , very cool . Thank you .

46:07.840 --> 46:10.007
And um if you are sharing the slides ,

46:10.007 --> 46:12.173
I would love a copy as well . Thanks .

46:12.173 --> 46:14.284
Yeah of course . Yeah , we could post

46:14.284 --> 46:17.260
them on matter most for sure and um if

46:17.260 --> 46:19.538
Will's OK with it , and then of course ,

46:19.538 --> 46:21.649
and we could send it around to anyone

46:21.649 --> 46:23.649
external to if anyone reaches out .

46:23.649 --> 46:25.593
Whatever you want . Oh sorry , I'm

46:25.593 --> 46:27.593
working on the white paper too . It

46:27.593 --> 46:29.538
should be ready around the 28th of

46:29.538 --> 46:31.482
August , uh , because I'm sticking

46:31.482 --> 46:33.371
around until then , uh , so I can

46:33.371 --> 46:36.290
attach that to a slide and well . Nice

46:36.290 --> 46:39.780
job , guys . Um ,

46:41.159 --> 46:44.129
Um , if it's OK to move on , I kind of ,

46:44.139 --> 46:46.361
um , think it's a good transition going

46:46.361 --> 46:48.417
from uh what I was calling these are

46:48.417 --> 46:50.639
sort of like outbriefs from some of our

46:50.639 --> 46:53.090
summer work with our rising talent . Um ,

46:53.379 --> 46:55.435
also , um , I don't know , I guess I

46:55.435 --> 46:57.268
could call it rising talent , so

46:57.268 --> 46:59.212
Lieutenant Goodbar has been , uh ,

46:59.212 --> 47:01.490
joined the group last couple weeks and ,

47:01.490 --> 47:04.820
um , I think this is to and and he's

47:04.820 --> 47:06.987
gonna be presenting just some thoughts

47:06.987 --> 47:09.042
that he has that he's trying to work

47:09.042 --> 47:11.042
through . Um , grappling with these

47:11.042 --> 47:13.098
tough questions of consciousness and

47:13.098 --> 47:15.376
artificial consciousness , and so , um ,

47:15.376 --> 47:17.653
this is exactly what this group is for ,

47:17.653 --> 47:19.709
uh , what we're doing today of , you

47:19.709 --> 47:21.820
know , hashing through ideas that you

47:21.820 --> 47:24.042
might have for work that you might want

47:24.042 --> 47:26.042
to do or grappling with concepts or

47:26.042 --> 47:27.931
short little outbriefs of of work

47:27.931 --> 47:30.098
you've done . So , um , Cameron , I'll

47:30.098 --> 47:32.209
give the floor to you , you could run

47:32.209 --> 47:34.209
it however you want . I know I only

47:34.209 --> 47:36.376
left you at 10 minutes , so we could ,

47:36.376 --> 47:38.598
I think we should carry it on . To next

47:38.598 --> 47:40.931
week , however you want to use the time ,

47:40.931 --> 47:44.419
over . OK , I can just , uh , I can

47:44.419 --> 47:46.475
start , see how far I get through my

47:46.475 --> 47:48.879
slides and uh if we need to maybe open

47:48.879 --> 47:50.768
up the Florida discussion later ,

47:50.768 --> 47:52.768
that's OK or whatever , whatever we

47:52.768 --> 47:55.090
feel is best . So I'll go ahead and

47:55.580 --> 47:57.899
share my screen here and thank you for

47:57.899 --> 48:00.121
giving me the opportunity to share some

48:00.121 --> 48:02.340
of my ideas . I hope , um ,

48:04.270 --> 48:07.479
Hope this is the place for it . Um ,

48:07.719 --> 48:09.830
let's see , can , is everybody seeing

48:09.830 --> 48:12.052
what I'm seeing ? Yes , sir . Well , we

48:12.052 --> 48:13.941
see your slide that says emergent

48:13.941 --> 48:16.510
synergy and presenter mode . Is it full

48:16.510 --> 48:18.621
screen now ? Full screen looks good .

48:18.709 --> 48:22.360
Awesome . All right , so , um , I'm

48:22.360 --> 48:24.527
Lieutenant Goodbar , like Kevin said ,

48:24.527 --> 48:26.582
um , I've just started trying to get

48:26.582 --> 48:28.949
into working with uh the Quest and Act

48:28.949 --> 48:31.520
3 group . Um , this concept that I'm

48:31.520 --> 48:33.520
gonna be presenting today is called

48:33.520 --> 48:35.709
Emergent Synergy , and it's sort of ,

48:35.939 --> 48:38.360
um , this overarching framework that I

48:38.360 --> 48:41.000
like , uh , that I , that I've kind of

48:41.000 --> 48:43.056
developed and kind of the way , it's

48:43.056 --> 48:45.222
basically the way I think about . Uh ,

48:45.222 --> 48:47.444
human consciousness and where we are in

48:47.444 --> 48:49.167
the tech space with artificial

48:49.167 --> 48:50.944
intelligence . It's basically a

48:50.944 --> 48:53.222
reductionist sort of uh interpretation ,

48:53.222 --> 48:55.278
um , but here I'll just go ahead and

48:55.278 --> 48:57.444
get right into it , hopefully . Um , I

48:57.444 --> 48:59.556
don't necessarily think this is fully

48:59.556 --> 49:01.611
novel . I'm sure a lot of you , um ,

49:01.611 --> 49:03.833
probably share some similar ideas , but

49:03.833 --> 49:06.056
this is my flavor , so I'm excited to ,

49:06.056 --> 49:08.222
um , share this with you all , um . On

49:08.222 --> 49:10.444
my screen , I'm just seeing my slides ,

49:10.444 --> 49:10.340
so I probably won't be able to see

49:10.340 --> 49:12.562
anybody trying to interact . So Kevin ,

49:12.562 --> 49:14.784
if you can mediate that , that would be

49:14.784 --> 49:16.896
great . Um , so yeah , let's get into

49:16.896 --> 49:18.896
it . A functional interpretation of

49:18.896 --> 49:20.840
consciousness . Tamera , would you

49:20.840 --> 49:22.840
rather hold questions or just , you

49:22.840 --> 49:25.173
know , this is a raucous , lively bunch ,

49:25.173 --> 49:25.040
and I , I appreciate discussion , but

49:25.040 --> 49:27.239
you can run it however you want . OK ,

49:27.439 --> 49:29.439
yeah , um , let's just , uh , let's

49:29.439 --> 49:31.661
hold questions till the end , I guess .

49:31.661 --> 49:33.883
Um , that's probably the best bet since

49:33.883 --> 49:36.050
we're on limited time . So bottom line

49:36.050 --> 49:38.217
up front , this is this big claim that

49:38.217 --> 49:40.328
I have that human level consciousness

49:40.328 --> 49:42.217
is the emergent synergy of a deep

49:42.217 --> 49:44.272
functional traversal of an extremely

49:44.272 --> 49:46.439
high dimensional configuration space .

49:46.439 --> 49:48.669
And so this is just the kind of big

49:48.669 --> 49:50.613
claim that I have of this emergent

49:50.613 --> 49:52.725
synergy concept , and I'm gonna break

49:52.725 --> 49:55.949
it down and um I wish I was gonna uh

49:55.949 --> 49:58.171
ask the crowd to kind of give thumbs up

49:58.171 --> 50:00.060
and thumbs down if they agreed or

50:00.060 --> 50:01.838
disagreed , but I , I can't see

50:01.838 --> 50:03.893
anything , so I'll just go ahead and

50:03.893 --> 50:05.949
push forward . So let's back it up .

50:06.229 --> 50:08.340
Let's break this down . Like I said ,

50:08.340 --> 50:10.451
it's reductionist , so let's break it

50:10.451 --> 50:10.070
down . So in my opinion , you know ,

50:10.189 --> 50:12.078
simply consciousness requires the

50:12.078 --> 50:14.300
existence of three things . That is the

50:14.300 --> 50:16.356
existence of information , sort of a

50:16.356 --> 50:18.522
state space uh that to exist in . Uh ,

50:18.522 --> 50:20.300
there's information storage and

50:20.300 --> 50:22.578
information processing , which is , uh ,

50:22.578 --> 50:24.522
composes your memory and then your

50:24.522 --> 50:26.522
state transition and control . Um ,

50:26.522 --> 50:28.745
those are those elements that I believe

50:28.745 --> 50:30.633
consciousness is derived from and

50:30.633 --> 50:32.745
emergent synergy , the concept really

50:32.745 --> 50:34.633
is just based in from fundamental

50:34.633 --> 50:36.856
elements , you get an expansion of this

50:36.856 --> 50:39.239
configuration space , I like the set of

50:39.239 --> 50:41.800
your potential system states , and also

50:41.800 --> 50:43.679
the increased like computational

50:43.679 --> 50:45.901
complexity , which I see is the ability

50:45.901 --> 50:48.012
to sort of navigate and traverse that

50:48.012 --> 50:50.800
configuration space and find new and uh

50:50.800 --> 50:52.411
novel functional solutions .

50:54.459 --> 50:56.681
So starting small , let's start small .

50:56.760 --> 50:58.982
Um , in general , we , we'll start sort

50:58.982 --> 51:01.149
of at the atomic level . I won't go uh

51:01.149 --> 51:02.982
lesser than that . I'm not a , a

51:02.982 --> 51:04.816
quantum physicist , but a matter

51:04.816 --> 51:07.149
interacting with the fundamental fields ,

51:07.149 --> 51:09.316
in my opinion , in , in this framework

51:09.316 --> 51:11.371
develops this configuration space at

51:11.371 --> 51:13.538
the atomic level . So here we have the

51:13.538 --> 51:13.199
four fundamental fields . We have the ,

51:13.280 --> 51:15.224
you know , electromagnetic field ,

51:15.224 --> 51:17.280
gravitational field , and the strong

51:17.280 --> 51:19.280
and weak force . And you know , the

51:19.280 --> 51:21.280
whole entire field of chemistry and

51:21.280 --> 51:23.113
everything that we see um is the

51:23.113 --> 51:25.459
emergent synergy um of atomic

51:25.459 --> 51:27.459
configurations . So that emergent

51:27.459 --> 51:29.681
synergy is right , the expansion of the

51:29.681 --> 51:31.570
configuration space and the , the

51:31.570 --> 51:33.681
ability to , to traverse that space .

51:33.681 --> 51:35.903
Uh that's kind of uh evident here . And

51:35.903 --> 51:38.126
like the quantum harmonic modes of uh a

51:38.126 --> 51:40.292
fundamental matter , right , of all of

51:40.292 --> 51:42.515
the elements existing in the universe ,

51:42.515 --> 51:44.403
uh they give rise to sort of your

51:44.403 --> 51:46.515
emission spectra , um , as shown here

51:46.515 --> 51:48.348
on the left in that image is the

51:48.348 --> 51:50.485
emission spectra for uh the hydrogen

51:50.485 --> 51:52.652
atom , you know , the most fundamental

51:52.695 --> 51:54.945
atom , uh , most fundamental element ,

51:55.175 --> 51:57.286
um , and it's still pretty has pretty

51:57.286 --> 51:59.669
complex uh . Structure there , right ?

51:59.750 --> 52:01.917
There's a pretty complex configuration

52:01.917 --> 52:04.028
space that it uh operates in and it's

52:04.028 --> 52:06.139
the most fundamental building block ,

52:06.139 --> 52:08.083
right , of matter um at the atomic

52:08.083 --> 52:10.306
level . And then you also you have your

52:10.306 --> 52:12.361
intern intramolecular forces which ,

52:12.361 --> 52:14.417
you know , sort of define how It's a

52:14.417 --> 52:16.583
chemical or an element or a molecule ,

52:16.583 --> 52:18.639
uh , looks and feels and operates in

52:18.639 --> 52:20.639
that space and you have the varying

52:20.639 --> 52:22.750
character of the chemical reactions ,

52:22.750 --> 52:24.917
uh , mostly defined by the interaction

52:24.917 --> 52:27.028
of the electromagnetic field in these

52:27.028 --> 52:29.361
quantum , uh , states along with the Uh ,

52:29.361 --> 52:31.694
physical composition of molecules , etc .

52:31.814 --> 52:33.925
And so that's sort of the fundamental

52:33.935 --> 52:36.534
basis for this emergent synergy concept .

52:36.735 --> 52:38.902
And so let's , uh , let's move it up a

52:38.902 --> 52:40.957
little bit , right ? We started with

52:40.957 --> 52:43.013
elements and chemicals and now let's

52:43.013 --> 52:45.124
get in , you know , now we're getting

52:45.124 --> 52:47.189
uh The emergent synergy of molecular

52:47.189 --> 52:49.590
dynamics producing biological

52:49.590 --> 52:51.757
structures and processes , right ? And

52:51.757 --> 52:53.646
how this , this sort of emergence

52:53.646 --> 52:55.646
synergy has opened up the space for

52:55.646 --> 52:57.812
things to exist such as a DNA which is

52:57.812 --> 53:00.034
the fundamental memory storage of uh of

53:00.034 --> 53:02.146
life as we know it . Um , building on

53:02.146 --> 53:04.540
that information storage , uh , order

53:04.540 --> 53:06.707
of consciousness concept that I talked

53:06.707 --> 53:08.651
about . And also you get know your

53:08.651 --> 53:10.984
phospholipid bilayer which is how cells ,

53:10.984 --> 53:13.096
uh , compartmentalize , we get compar

53:13.096 --> 53:15.318
uh biocompartmentalization through this

53:15.318 --> 53:17.484
and uh vesicles for neurotransmitter ,

53:17.484 --> 53:19.373
uh , release . Um , so really the

53:19.373 --> 53:22.120
ability to um have a functioning

53:22.120 --> 53:24.530
independent agents or elements comes

53:24.530 --> 53:26.752
through , you know , the development of

53:26.752 --> 53:28.808
phospholipid bilayer which is just a

53:28.808 --> 53:31.469
form of um polar molecule , uh ,

53:31.479 --> 53:33.535
organized in some specific fashion .

53:33.639 --> 53:35.695
And then you get all these metabolic

53:35.695 --> 53:37.528
pathways that come through these

53:37.528 --> 53:39.695
molecular dynamics which composes that

53:39.695 --> 53:41.750
information processing and then that

53:41.750 --> 53:43.917
traversal of the configuration space .

53:43.917 --> 53:45.806
And so once you have that , going

53:45.806 --> 53:48.028
another step further , right , you have

53:48.028 --> 53:50.195
these biological structures and um and

53:50.195 --> 53:52.659
uh metabolic pathway uh pathways , and

53:52.659 --> 53:54.603
those synergized to form , right ,

53:54.603 --> 53:56.715
archaea bacteria and ultimately , you

53:56.715 --> 53:58.603
know , the eukaryotic cells which

53:58.603 --> 54:00.548
compose uh humans , right ? And uh

54:00.548 --> 54:03.250
cells are in extremely high order here

54:03.250 --> 54:05.361
of uh configuration of the matter and

54:05.361 --> 54:07.583
energy space , extremely high , right ?

54:07.583 --> 54:09.750
We're talking , you know , billions of

54:09.750 --> 54:11.806
years of , of traversal of the , you

54:11.806 --> 54:13.917
know , progression of the universe to

54:13.917 --> 54:16.083
get to the eukaryotic cell and just to

54:16.083 --> 54:18.139
kind of illustrate that is the image

54:18.139 --> 54:20.083
here on the right of the , of , of

54:20.083 --> 54:22.580
neurons and their um varying neurons in

54:22.580 --> 54:24.979
their specific configurations and it's

54:24.979 --> 54:27.409
very deep and structured and dynamic

54:27.409 --> 54:29.520
and And this is just neurons , not to

54:29.520 --> 54:32.909
mention , you know , all the varying uh

54:32.909 --> 54:35.020
compositions of the eukaryotic cell .

54:37.810 --> 54:39.866
And so off we go and I'm about to go

54:39.866 --> 54:42.032
off the deep end hopefully everyone is

54:42.032 --> 54:44.254
on board with the buildup so far . So ,

54:44.679 --> 54:47.199
here we go , um , the human is the most

54:47.199 --> 54:49.421
complex matter and energy configuration

54:49.421 --> 54:51.477
of the known universe yet discovered

54:51.600 --> 54:53.879
and the exa you know , the things that

54:53.879 --> 54:55.990
we have as humans , right , executive

54:55.990 --> 54:58.409
function , emotion . Um , uh ,

54:58.419 --> 55:01.229
imagination , dreaming , uh , or all of

55:01.229 --> 55:03.750
these things are the emergent synergy

55:04.000 --> 55:06.679
at complexities on the order of the

55:06.679 --> 55:09.080
human , of the human mind , excuse me .

55:09.449 --> 55:11.500
Um , and really , um , I'm defining

55:11.500 --> 55:13.667
like an order of consciousness as sort

55:13.667 --> 55:15.333
of the dimensionality of that

55:15.333 --> 55:17.689
configuration space of which whatever

55:17.689 --> 55:19.820
you are considering , as well as the

55:19.820 --> 55:22.179
functional ability to traverse that

55:22.179 --> 55:24.068
space , right ? The human mind is

55:24.068 --> 55:26.179
traversing in extremely deep , like ,

55:26.219 --> 55:28.330
you know , we're talking , you know ,

55:28.330 --> 55:30.552
billions of neurons , uh , quadrillions

55:30.552 --> 55:32.608
of synapses , and not to mention all

55:32.608 --> 55:34.719
the molecular dynamics that goes into

55:34.719 --> 55:36.886
each individual cell . we're talking a

55:36.886 --> 55:40.020
huge order of magnitude , um . A huge

55:40.020 --> 55:42.187
configuration space that we're able to

55:42.187 --> 55:44.820
traverse that I believe produces um the

55:44.820 --> 55:46.764
consciousness that we experience .

55:48.360 --> 55:50.399
Let's look at how complex the human

55:50.399 --> 55:53.439
mind actually is . Um , here are some

55:53.439 --> 55:55.929
uh two diagrams from two separate , uh ,

55:55.959 --> 55:58.560
papers . Um , I'll start with the image

55:58.560 --> 56:00.671
on the right , which is , so , uh , a

56:00.671 --> 56:02.727
lot in neuroscience , there's been ,

56:02.727 --> 56:04.782
it's been theorized that the uh this

56:04.782 --> 56:06.949
thing called a cortical column , which

56:06.949 --> 56:09.171
is a structure in the cerebral cortex ,

56:09.171 --> 56:11.393
sort of forms this uh general computing

56:11.393 --> 56:13.504
structure in the mind . And so here ,

56:13.504 --> 56:15.750
this image is 5 cortical columns of ,

56:15.760 --> 56:18.790
uh , in a rat brain . And there's , uh ,

56:18.870 --> 56:20.926
you know , there's 6 layers and it's

56:20.926 --> 56:22.981
extremely complex . Look at how rich

56:22.981 --> 56:25.037
and dynamic and uh that structure is

56:25.389 --> 56:28.310
and , um , and this other paper which

56:28.310 --> 56:30.088
was really cool to see was they

56:30.088 --> 56:32.143
actually sort of mapped the way that

56:32.143 --> 56:34.032
these processes uh or these cells

56:34.032 --> 56:36.143
interact with , you know , inhibitory

56:36.143 --> 56:38.032
and excitatory responses and just

56:38.032 --> 56:41.179
feedback loops and uh routing to other

56:41.179 --> 56:44.310
uh areas of the mind . Um , in very

56:44.310 --> 56:46.477
complex ways . So I mean , this , uh ,

56:46.477 --> 56:48.699
this dynamic structure here on the left

56:48.699 --> 56:51.790
is , uh , it's , it's pretty deep and

56:51.790 --> 56:55.550
is not , is similar to some , you

56:55.550 --> 56:57.717
know , I , I guess I'll just go to the

56:57.717 --> 56:59.830
next slide . Um , before I get into

56:59.830 --> 57:02.790
that point . So , but where are we in

57:02.790 --> 57:05.012
terms of like artificial intelligence ,

57:05.012 --> 57:07.068
right ? Like how are neural networks

57:07.068 --> 57:09.068
have sort of come onto the scene to

57:09.068 --> 57:11.234
provide human level abilities and this

57:11.234 --> 57:13.590
new scale of depth and computation and

57:13.590 --> 57:17.080
uh uh uh uh yeah , new level of

57:17.080 --> 57:19.136
computation that the world has never

57:19.136 --> 57:21.247
seen before . We're able to do things

57:21.247 --> 57:23.413
now , um . That are extremely cool and

57:23.413 --> 57:25.413
enabling us to do amazing wonderful

57:25.413 --> 57:27.580
things in the tech space . And so here

57:27.580 --> 57:29.802
on the left , you know , I kind of just

57:29.802 --> 57:31.969
wanted to list this as a comparison to

57:31.969 --> 57:33.969
the human mind . Uh , you know , we

57:33.969 --> 57:36.136
have the transformer architecture here

57:36.136 --> 57:38.358
in the top left as well as an LSTM cell

57:38.358 --> 57:40.358
at the bottom , and then we have an

57:40.358 --> 57:42.580
image from a paper uh called the Neural

57:42.580 --> 57:44.802
Network Zoo . So this is just basically

57:44.802 --> 57:47.270
An outline of every , uh , most of the

57:47.620 --> 57:49.676
networks and the configurations that

57:49.676 --> 57:51.898
exist and how this falls into my theory

57:51.898 --> 57:53.953
of emergence synergy , right ? We're

57:53.953 --> 57:56.120
talking about configuration spaces and

57:56.120 --> 57:58.287
functional traversal . I mean , When ,

57:58.287 --> 58:00.009
when I get into thinking about

58:00.009 --> 58:01.953
artificial intelligence and neural

58:01.953 --> 58:01.699
networks , specifically , I'm looking

58:01.699 --> 58:04.520
at this mapping and I'm just seeing uh

58:04.760 --> 58:06.816
You know , we're really tapping into

58:06.816 --> 58:09.129
that functional dynamic of emergence

58:09.129 --> 58:11.209
synergy where we're having these

58:11.209 --> 58:14.889
complex um computational structures and

58:14.889 --> 58:17.222
we're connecting them in very deep ways ,

58:17.222 --> 58:19.445
you know , with billions of connections

58:19.445 --> 58:21.667
and that's enabling us to sort of scale

58:21.667 --> 58:23.850
up near , you know , especially in

58:23.850 --> 58:26.330
certain confined spaces near to uh

58:26.330 --> 58:28.810
human capability and sometimes

58:28.810 --> 58:32.330
surpassing . Cameron , brother , we're

58:32.330 --> 58:35.120
at 1300 Eastern . We keep it tight ,

58:35.449 --> 58:37.616
but this is too good , too good to let

58:37.616 --> 58:39.838
go . Are you , are you free next week ?

58:39.838 --> 58:41.949
I pick up , can you pick up where you

58:41.949 --> 58:44.520
left off ? Yeah , I'd love to . OK ,

58:44.639 --> 58:46.806
yeah , let's start , maybe on the last

58:46.806 --> 58:48.695
slide with the neocortex into the

58:48.695 --> 58:51.590
transition to artificial cortex or or

58:51.590 --> 58:53.812
and then um go from there . Thanks this

58:53.812 --> 58:55.850
is . I'm , I'm drooling .

58:58.459 --> 58:59.959
Cool . Nice job everyone .

59:02.610 --> 59:04.721
I , I don't know . Should we do one ?

59:05.810 --> 59:08.010
Please send follow-up emails to uh to

59:08.010 --> 59:10.177
Cameron over the week if you guys have

59:10.177 --> 59:12.399
1st , 1st thoughts . He can incorporate

59:12.399 --> 59:14.399
them into his presentation for next

59:14.399 --> 59:13.889
week . Let's get some email chains

59:13.889 --> 59:16.000
going . I'll see you guys next week .

59:16.429 --> 59:17.360
Awesome quest .